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Bad Plants?

Questions and Conversation about Chapter 9

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OneSheep
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Bad Plants?

Post by OneSheep » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:02 pm

Here are some page numbers and quotes from the Chapter I would like to look into more deeply:

Page 135: "Many of these so-called bad plants…contain incredible properties for healing or are necessary for some of the most magnificent wonders when combined with something else."

What I loved about this statement was that "bad plants" can be metaphorical for anything we encounter in nature that we have a negative reaction to.

Page 137: The day that A&E ate the fruit was a “great sorrow day”, that the choice “tore the universe apart”, “divorcing the spiritual from the physical” “That was a great sorrow day”.

So, page 137 presents (perhaps) a bit of a contradiction. Something happened that caused a "divorcing", and that "divorcing" is seen as a negative. OTOH, what evidence do we have that there was ever a "divorcing", but rather there is a "marriage" that is occurring very slowly?

Might there not be a creative activity happening where the spiritual and physical started scattered, and with creation and incarnation the unification is in the process of occurring?

Is it possible that the human compulsion to self-blame is partly behind the Adam and Eve story? After all, the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil is clearly a metaphor for the conscience, right? And when we have a conscience, we have the capacity to self-blame (and blame everyone else), so it makes sense that anything we perceive bad about the human or the world we blame ourselves (because when we blame God, that only leads to fear and more guilt).

What do you think?

Doggie
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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by Doggie » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:24 pm

Actually when we blame ourselves or mankind as a whole we are claiming power. We are saying we have the power to cause this. Isn't that kind of what the bible tells us was the original sin. The desire to be like God. Pride in our power.
It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me.

OneSheep
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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by OneSheep » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:51 pm

Well, there is the aspect of power, but what I am addressing is the "bad plants".

For example, is our natural desire for status and power, which many would consider "bad plants" really bad? Why would God create us with a natural desire for status and power, even for independence?

And we can look also, for the notion that people have of wanting to be like God, which again is wanting to have power and status. Is this a "bad plant" or does such a want serve some purpose?

Thanks for your response! :D

Doggie
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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by Doggie » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:21 pm

In the garden Good gave Adam dominion, or power, over everything. In this case then having power is natural. The problem came when it wasn't enough. God have is free will, we still have free will. We can choose relationship with him, or to go on our own. It isn't the power that is "bad" it is the choices made with that power.
Good didn't create us as mindless robots because he desired relationship. A relationship is a two way give and take. It isn't a very rewarding relationship when there is no choice on one side.

This is just my humble opinion, and yes there are a lot of ways to debate your questions but with our limited knowledge and wisdom I don't believe we will understand it until we meet him in totality.
It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me.

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Arus
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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by Arus » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:36 pm

I will now throw a spanner in the works. What if God was referring to "bad plants" which are actually good plants if used correctly?
Take good old Mary-Jane, or, Marijuana. If smoked, or made into brownies, you go on a high. BUT, if the oils from the plant are scientifically extracted, they can, and do, extend the life of cancer patients.
In the cracks of an earthquake, new flowers grow.

Doggie
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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by Doggie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:29 pm

And do wonders in cutting down pain without the high our the other side effects of narcotics.

Thanking God for the CBD oil from marijuana.
It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me.

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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by Arus » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:04 pm

Indeed!
In the cracks of an earthquake, new flowers grow.

OneSheep
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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by OneSheep » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:01 pm

Doggie wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:21 pm
In the garden Good gave Adam dominion, or power, over everything. In this case then having power is natural. The problem came when it wasn't enough. God have is free will, we still have free will. We can choose relationship with him, or to go on our own. It isn't the power that is "bad" it is the choices made with that power.
I see that we are in agreement on bad choices being an issue. Sounds like we also both agree that the natural desire to want power is not "bad" in itself.

So the negative seen on the day of sorrow was not something about people in themselves, but their action that lead to a "divorce". And the idea of a "divorce" makes sense because, after all, our spiritual and physical selves do have a bit of a disconnect.

However, why would it be so that such a "divorce" ever happened in the first place? Why is it not so that we see the creative event as ongoing, and that part of that event, in which we now participate, is the unifying of the Spiritual and the Physical? (That they simply began apart and creation is a unifying event, and the Physical/Spiritual unification began with the incarnation).

Do you see that there is a way of looking at the whole picture without saying someone is to blame for something?

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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by Doggie » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:53 am

I'll agree that you can look at it any way you want. But if you are going to pick and choose what you want out of the bible them why use any of it? Why not just write your own belief?

I don't pretend to be God and know everything but I believe what the bible says.
It is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me.

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Re: Bad Plants?

Post by OneSheep » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:44 pm

Doggie wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:53 am
I'll agree that you can look at it any way you want. But if you are going to pick and choose what you want out of the bible them why use any of it? Why not just write your own belief?

I don't pretend to be God and know everything but I believe what the bible says.
I think I have sorted out a few things. I think that we find the belief that there is someone to blame for our condition attractive because self-blame is not only comfortable, but it puts us in a condition of submission and humility, which is a good way to get along in the world, it helps keep the "ego in check", so to speak.

So while there is the problem created that some blaming is involved, which is a hit on human beauty and innocence, the cost is worth the benefit.

I think with the growth of awareness, one can be very humbled by simply knowing that we know so very little. This in itself leads to a humility, so the whole blame-thing no longer is necessary. So, if a person is humbled as a result of self-blaming, that is good! If a person is humbled because of realization that he is quite ignorant, that is also good!

However, if a person can see his own human condition as nothing needing to blame anyone about, that we are beautiful and lovable just the way we are, and there has never been a "day of sadness" where the children He created rejected Him and then He punished, then that perspective glorifies God.

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