A Confluence of Paths ... Shout Outs and New Members > Outbound Ripples (Shout Out!)
Wow, Words fail me in writing a suitable review of this book ! ! !
dion:
Thanks Arus and Wandaw,
I will consider that a compliment.
--- Quote from: wandaw on January 04, 2012, 07:19:09 PM ---I agree with Arus! Yours is not a typical pastor's response to the book.
--- End quote ---
Being a Pastor is for me an opportunity to help people find their way to the heart of God, I try as far as possible (and I am human so I am sure I fail at this quite a lot too) to teach my church the more real aspects of the Bible like acceptance and love.
I think the biggest problem with the church as we know it and most pastors / preachers is that, while they have the best of intentions, they are too quick to judge people and condemn them to hell fire. If only we could sometimes look back and remember where we come from and that we were also once lost and not in fellowship with God. He gave us time to make our mistakes, learn from them and all along he patiently endured our wrong-doings and loved us until we found our way to him (God). Now if this is how the creator dealt with us and our mistakes, why do we suddenly feel we are better than others and they don't deserve the same grace and long-suffering from God that he afforded us.
There is a quote I often use in ministry and I am not even sure who first spoke these words, but it kind off sums up my belief on the whole thing, when looking at someone's faults, we should be thinking : "There but for the grace of God, go I"
Once again thanks for the responses guys and I think I may certainly stick around for a while and am sure it will be a pleasure getting to know everyone here.
Keep up the great work you guys are doing, it is truly a blessing to have this forum ! ! !
diegito:
--- Quote from: dion on January 05, 2012, 12:36:27 AM ---Keep up the great work you guys are doing
--- End quote ---
The One doing the real work here be praised!! :blueangel:
My pastor was quite distrustful of The Shack when it was first published here (Germany) and politely declined to read it when I recommended it to her; then someone gave it to her as a birthday present and she was overwhelmed. She (as well as her husband, who shares her appointment with her) is definitely not a run-of-the-mill pastor, though.
In Germany, church is organised in two basic ways. The Roman Catholic and Lutheran Churches for instance are subsidised from state-levied church taxes paid by those registered as "R.C."'s or Lutherans, and they comprise the majority of (at least nominal!) Christians. Their ministers are servants of their churches but paid just like civil servants. Being paid as civil servants means that there are a lot of regulations regarding the ministers' training. They have to study theology for ages. All state-subsidised pastors therefore are more or less intellectuals...
In Germany, I would not say the main problem with pastors is their too-great willingness to condemn others to hell (they wouldn't get far if they did that; people would run away in flocks and they would have no taxes left to finance themselves) but that they have to study so much that their relationship with God tends to get obscured by "accepted teaching" and by theological debates and theories. I often think less brains, more heart would help there.
There are other "free" churches whose ministers are paid solely by their congregation. They may avoid the above trap but some of them get caught up in the hell-fire teaching. Here, too, I believe more heart than teaching may help.
Love to you, dion!! :Hug:
arus:
--- Quote from: dion on January 05, 2012, 12:36:27 AM ---I think the biggest problem with the church as we know it and most pastors / preachers is that, while they have the best of intentions, they are too quick to judge people and condemn them to hell fire.
--- End quote ---
I see that you have met our preachers over here :D Sadly though, what you say is true, and is the reason why I don't go to church anymore.
Judy:
Hi Dion and welcome.
I was born and raised in the Bible belt, currently living in Alabama. Most of the people I know were born in a church and never strayed very far. They are 'dear hearts and gentle people'. Not hypocrites, but they've never strayed far enough to appreciate the shepherd rescuing them.
Fortunately for me, I fell off a cliff. I KNOW how much I need a savior.
dion:
Diegito,
--- Quote from: diegito on January 05, 2012, 03:52:06 AM ---The One doing the real work here be praised!! :blueangel:
--- End quote ---
You quite right about that, all praise and glory should go to God alone. However, I meant that you guys are playing a part in God's plan and practically demonstrating his love to those who visit here, so keep that up and may the Lord continue to use you all to be a blessing to others.
And I certainly agree that whatever the reasons preachers act the way they do, more heart will definitely help the church and its leadership. Thanks for your input. :Hug:
Arus, I have met way too many preachers like that. And it is certainly a sad state of affairs. But I do think most if not all of them really do have good intentions, they just go about it the wrong way. :)
Judy, Thanks and please don't misunderstand what I am saying here, I am not accusing anyone of being hypocrites, i am just saying that for whatever reasons, the organized church is failing to demonstrate God's Love and compassion as witnessed in the life of Jesus Christ and rather choosing to judge people and condemn them, without understanding that God loves all his children, even the disobedient ones and we should try as far as possible to demonstrate the same Love and Compassion Jesus did. Let me put it to you this way, I am myself a minister and I greatly Love God's people, so if I am trying to help someone that is struggling with an addiction, would I be more successful by telling him if he doesn't quit he is going to 'burn in hell' for eternity, or by bringing myself down to his level, sharing his pain and struggle and walking him through the process of quitting, and being there all the time to help him if and when he does stumble. Not just telling him about Jesus loving him so much that he died for him, but demonstrating that Love myself even though it may be a feeble attempt, until he can one day be fully delivered and able to share how God and the Love of Jesus helped him get beyond his struggle, and he can go on to help others that may be struggling with the same problem or something similar. Now that sounds to me like servant hearted leadership and discipleship. (Both Biblical concepts anyway).
Don't know if I got my point across or just confused matters more, but basically I feel the church is misguided at worst, not hypocrites, not deliberately out to hurt people, but with truly good intentions they are somehow still missing the mark. Hope that makes sense.
Thank you all for your views, may God continue to Bless each of you and your families. "Papa is especially fond of you."
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